Is God Important?

Let’s suppose, as most religions do, that God is the creator of the universe. However, this implies the assumption that God is not part of the universe itself. But this breaks the common definition of universe that states that everything is included in the universe: universe includes all existing things, either seen or unseen, from the past, present or future.

So, let’s rewrite: God is the creator of the created part of the universe. In this case God is included in the universe itself. Just that one of its actions is that of creating other things inside the universe.

As God is then just a part of the universe, it cannot be the creator of everything! It’s obvious he didn’t create himself. Maybe a Master God created God, but in that case we can just switch back to the first paragraph, replacing God by Master God and looping again, indefinitely. If we do so, we would admit having infinite master gods outside our universe, and we would need to think about the universe as the limit of a set of master gods when their count number gets infinite – isn’t this just advanced Maths? 🙂

Anyway, in this case, we get outside of the loop by putting our brain to work, and therefore (just like in Maths) we can use a logical concept of infinity to thing about a single God containing multiple entities that are subsequent creators. This way we reach, again, to a single God concept, this time inside an infinite universe: all gods can be considered as part of the universe, if we accept that the universe can contain an infinite number of entities inside – and an infinite universe is a grealty accepted concept, we don’t have any trouble to accept that.

Now, that we have only one God (possibly, including infinite entities inside) remaining, what’s the difference between God and humans? They both create things inside the universe. They both may have been created by (a part of) God.

In other words, God is actually not important in the universe. It’s jut a part of the universe, exactly as humans. So what’s the point of religion (or faith in God), outside of being a social behavior mediator (and outside of being an important mass manipulator :-))? Shouldn’t psychology (and, respectively, mass media) be enough for that?


About Sorin Dolha

My passion is software development, but I also like physics.
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7 Responses to Is God Important?

  1. Tudor Turcu says:

    Nice exercise in logic/philosophy – the only hypothesis which we don’t know the answer (if somebody assumes there is a god), is the one that that a god was created too, at a point in time (we can also assume it was eternal).. 🙂

  2. Toby says:

    Great post Sorin!…but what if the universe is god? In this case, everything would be a part of god. The chair I am sitting in and the rocks and grass outside. God cannot "act on" these things. God is simply the rules arounds which things are established – like the laws of physics. This assumption gets you to a simular conclusion – but a lot faster. :-)If God IS the universe, what point does he serve? I don’t know. …but, there would be a lot less to talk about if he didn’t exist. :-)I have summed up <a href="">my thoughts on god</a> on my blog.

  3. Sorin says:

    Tudor, if time itself is part of the universe (as it seems it is), eternal is a concept defined only within the universe (or maybe only within the part of the universe created by the last god :-)). In other words, creation doesn’t require a time; it’s just like a relation between two entities: one creates another, and they could both be eternal if you insist. Or that’s how I try to imagine it could be. :-)No name (i.e. Toby – you could enter at least your first name in your profile :-)), if the definition to use is God = physics laws, or God = universe itself, then yes, the conclusion is the same and easier to get; but I tried to start from a religion related point of view, and as you could see I finalize the post somewhere around religion too (or, at least, that was my intention). 🙂

  4. Toby says:

    Hey Sorin – thanks for the great comment you left on my blog. I wanted to reply here where the conversation started.To recap and address the comment you left: The point I was trying to convey in the blog post is that God is nothing more then something "greater then yourself". By this definition – if you believe in something greater then yourself, you believe in god. Alternatively, if you believe that it is possible to REASONABLY explain ALL of the universe without resorting to a "greater power" – then there is no reason to believe in god. Of course, you will also have to believe that you are no more important then a rock.From there, I listed 5 physical phenomena which…just…blow my mind. Furthermore, the points listed have NEVER been explained in all of human history. Theories exists, but then, I could come up with a thousand theories right now. I have no doubt that eventually some of the questions asked will be answered. However, I also know that the more we understand the more crazy and science fiction like our universe will start to look. There will always be problems which are beyond our ability to understand. Amazing things. Who needs fiction when the universe we live in is so amazing?My problem with your "infinite god" argument is this: If we can call something "greater then yourself" god, then why would you need to justify something "greater than that" in order to prove gods existence? By your definition, I would believe in god because: HOLY SHIT! A parallel universe with infinite gods!!! :-)- I know that your argument was not trying to disprove god, but instead trying to point out the pointlessness of religion. Here we agree – but I have to make one point. Religious people tend to be more trustworthy / honest / kind then non-religious people. Let’s say you had to leave your child with a stranger for 10 years. You can pick from one of two people: one is religious and the other is not. Who would you pick? I may not agree with their religious views and I probably wouldn’t cheat off of them on a math exam – but I know who I would pick. Therefore, I think religion serves a purpose. For some people, it gives them direction and purpose. …even if it is not for me I can appreciate that it is helpful to some. …placebos serve a purpose too.>you could enter at least your first name in your profileDon’t know what is happening here…it shows my full name when I view the page. A bug?

  5. Sorin says:

    Thanks for your nice replies 🙂 I understand your point better now, I think we were just discussing different things.I think however, that not always religion-related people are better, although to me (as to you) it seems that usually people who are religious also have a good heart. But I think there are a lot of exceptions too.Kindness of humans I think is a good topic for a different blog entry. Here I was just considering some high level theory for God importance: to me, even if God exists, and it surely does, et least as just "something bigger" (or maybe an "infinite set"), it doesn’t seem to be very important in theory (in practice religion sometimes is good making some humans better, while sometimes is bad by manipulating large masses of people to do maybe bad things).On the other hand, not believing in anything is not good either (in my opinion): nihilism doesn’t seem a good way to go, even if we are just like a rock; if you embrace nihilism you don’t have any reason to continue to improve.Personally I think it’s better to stay out of either believing in God existence (and that everything matters) or in God inexistence (and that that nothing matters): but remain optimistical, and continue improving whatever you want to do in this world, as a goal of existence may be existence itself.

  6. Dr. A says:

    Imagine you are born as a jumper on the one way to a plain. While walking, you meet on the way people telling you to get a parachute. And others telling you to get a beer rather than a parachute since beer is good and tasty but a parachute is a burden to walk with. Obviously there is no one to be seen with a good use for a parachute. You get to the plain but that is not much different from a fancy car. You get on it and it takes off towards the drop off point. Will you have a parachute on?

  7. Sorin says:

    Dr. A, nice parabola! 🙂 However, it doesn’t change much, since (as I understand) it implies that there is information outside of the universe, coming to you as a supposition that you must trust, without being able to access it yourself: the jumper couldn’t know about the parachute’s use in his or her closed world (that’s what it is supposed).Let me clarify: both types of advices (to get a parachute and to get a beer) can be considered religions. If the jumper doesn’t find any good reason for any of the items, he or she should skip both: don’t drink the beer, don’t purchase the parachute. Of course, this may mean death afterwords (just like having the beer), but why should he or she trust one advicer versus the other? How could the jumper decide who to trust: shuold he or she purchase the parachute, the beer, or neither, when no information is actually avaiable to get (using the human senses, plus reasoning upon known history and scrience facts) inside the closed universe (where we suppose he doesn’t know how jumping happens)?I think humans and religions are the same: multiple religions come to humans with different suppositions on what and how they should do in life, providing God as a nice packaging (or as a futue benefit) for their (many times, manipulative) requests.If one human cannot actually get that information through senses and reasoning, he or she shouldn’t trust either of the religions. In other words, in my opinion, one should trust just what he or she feels and thinks (considering, of course, society laws, history, science, etc.): that’s why he or she has senses and brains. This way one can generate his or her own personal, internal, "religion" (or life vision).Even that sometimes the argument for accepting religion is that it makes humans better, based on my idea, I think one should probably be good rather than bad simply because of the understood (reasoned) society laws (familial, juridical, etc.) and their output (consequences) for authors of different actions.In my opinion, just by reasoning, eventually people will understand that the religion is less important (if any), and God will only remain as a simple universe creator (or set of infinite creators), just like I initially presented, with less importance to life in the closed universe we all live in.

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